Welcome to the CPC Discussions blog.
This blog is a place to foster further discussion between individuals at CPC. As we encounter new information and ideas, we all take time to process through what our response is. Often, when we have the opportunity to engage with each other during this processing, we find our ideas enriched and expanded.
Thanks for creating this blog. I look forward to hearing about what others are thinking as they read through the Bible. I hope this will keep me on track too.
I'll start with sharing a few ideas that came to mind as I read last week.
- In Genesis, I was struck by the repetition of the phrase: "these are the generations…" as the way the book is structured. I see that it helps to focus the reader's (hearer's) attention on what is to come, but wonder if there is more that I ought to think about it with regard to generations.
- I am interested in the topic of longing. C. S. Lewis is to blame - he does longing so well in his works, both fiction and non-fiction. Here's a quote from Mere Christianity: "If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." So as I'm reading through the Bible, I pray I can notice longings. In the garden, while God provided everything man would need, it seems Eve longed for more: to be like God? Why? At Babel, men longed to make a name for themselves. What do I long for? What does it tell me about myself? About God? About eternity?
Does God long? In Job 14, Job is wrestling with his situation and his understanding of God. In vv 14-15 he says to God, "If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my service I would wait, till my renewal should come. You would call, and I would answer you; you would long for the work of your hands." Hmmm?
- I am warned by Job's friends. They really do seem to know a lot about God which is true to Scripture, but they presume they know the whole story and have lots of words for Job which are not helpful. They don't know the story. I need to remember that sometimes (most times?) it's best to just listen. I don't have to have an answer to someone's suffering.
Reading these chapters in Genesis this time I saw some things I had not noticed before (or probably forgot!) • Eve added to God's prohibition by saying 'don't touch, lest you die'...where did she get that? Also instead of waiting to ask God about the serpent's claim she went ahead and helped herself...what if she would have waited and asked (a good thing for me to practice!)
• how God came to our first parents (Gen 3:8), called to them (9), asks/dialogues with them (same chapter) and cared that they/we NOT live forever in this sinful state! (Doesn't humanity, the world over, still look for the fruit of the 'tree of life' - even though it's often called 'the fountain of youth'? If our first parents had eaten that, thinking they were getting a good thing we all would be lost forever! Whoa!)
• Again in Chapter 4 God comes to Cain BEFORE his murder of his brother and asks him questions,'why has your face fallen?' ...offers encouragement to do well. What if Cain had asked for help in this regard - talked it over with God and found that help he needed?
• Noah and his family, with all the animals, were closed up in the ark over a year - this gave me hope for waiting in the 'closed up places' I sometimes feel myself!
• Just thinking again about God's covenant sign of the rainbow - that HE sees it and remembers his everlasting covenant with us and every living creature...says He remembers twice - I'm so glad He is that kind of God!
bnj - I'm assuming this is Jennifer (am I right?). The observation about "generations" in Genesis is a good one. One way of structuring the book is to see the first chapter and a half as a preface to Genesis with the generations being indicators of different portions. For instance introducing Adam, Noah, sons of Noah, Terah, Jacob, etc. No doubt, the use of generations always causes us to reflect on teh historical reliability as well as the clear intention that the author believed the book to be historical. I totally resonate with the question of longing - thanks for bringing it up. What do I long for? The praise of man? Comfort? Learning? Why do I find myself concerned over these things more than I do God? Perhaps through the course of this reading, this is an aspect we can ask God to help us with - "show us your beauty Lord, so that we would long for you more than anything else." Your last sentence is freeing and wise. Not only don't you / we have to have the answer to all people's questions and problems, we can't always know all the time. For we are limited. I think what's interesting is that in the midst of struggle, difficulty, suffering, many people aren't looking for all inclusive answers but are many times looking for care, love, and sympathy. Why do we feel like we have to always give the "right" answer?
More on longing (something I'll open up with in this week's sermon). In Engaging God's World, Plantinga has a nice discussion about the correlation between longing and shalom. He also references C.S. Lewis' Problem of Pain, chapter 10, which I just re-read: it's tremendous and really distills the concept of longing for heaven quite well. I heartily recommend it!
DeAnn - thanks for the idea about the year in the ark. That's good for those "how long, O Lord?" times.
Ryan - looking forward to it. I need to get that book. I have to admit though, I don't like the idea of longing even longer as we wait "in a better place with Jesus" after death. Longing not to long....hmmm
I thought it was interesting to read Job's bitterness of soul in chapter 21 and guess the weight of suffering can be so strong it comes near to wiping clean one's memory of the truth. Job questions why the wicked live (7) and are not 'put out' more often (17)...I wondered why he didn't recall the great flood of Noah's time when all the wicked WERE washed out...yet he evidently sees the wicked proliferating in his own time and NOT suffering the kind of wrath HE's feeling - what sorrows he bore...makes me weep just thinking about his courage and the reality of these writings enduring what seem like eons of time.
Eliphaz seems to remember the flood (22:16) but he takes such a dim view of man's worth it's hard to hear his voice.
Just read chapter 10 of Problem of Pain...excellent. How Lewis crafts words that resonate in the soul of the reader is, I think, one of the Self-Giving projects our Good Father has initiated. I am glad...and I am glad you found it first, Ryan, and directed us to read and ponder it.
I like especially "Heaven is a city, and a Body, because the blessed remain eternally different: a society, because each has something to tell all the others--fresh and ever fresh news of the "My God" whom each finds in Him who all praise as "Our God".
And "the soul is but a hollow which God fills. It's union with God is, almost by definition, a continual self-abandonment--an opening, an unveiling, a surrender, of itself. A blessed spirit is a mould ever more and more patient of the bright metal poured into it, a body ever more completely uncovered to the meridian blaze of the spiritual sun."
I would like to know what you think of his idea of "pains in heaven"..is it that God's initial self-ingiving in Christ will continue as each of us become more conformed to this same self-giving behavior, by the Holy Spirit...and that activity continues eternity? I think I can see that now better than before I read this...but will it be painful? Hmmm.
I guess Elihu sums up all our wonderings well in this week's readings when he says, "God is exalted in his power; who is a teacher like him...he is great and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable..he does great things we cannot comprehend and he does not regard any who are wise in their own conceit...may He help us to know Him better and remain humble!! a tall order but He can do it! Thanks for all your interactions this week, Jennifer, Penny, "Heather" Ryan...this is a joy for me to read the Word with you and think back and forth...I appreciate your time and thoughts.
Thanks for creating this blog. I look forward to hearing about what others are thinking as they read through the Bible. I hope this will keep me on track too.
ReplyDeleteI'll start with sharing a few ideas that came to mind as I read last week.
- In Genesis, I was struck by the repetition of the phrase: "these are the generations…" as the way the book is structured. I see that it helps to focus the reader's (hearer's) attention on what is to come, but wonder if there is more that I ought to think about it with regard to generations.
- I am interested in the topic of longing. C. S. Lewis is to blame - he does longing so well in his works, both fiction and non-fiction. Here's a quote from Mere Christianity: "If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." So as I'm reading through the Bible, I pray I can notice longings. In the garden, while God provided everything man would need, it seems Eve longed for more: to be like God? Why? At Babel, men longed to make a name for themselves. What do I long for? What does it tell me about myself? About God? About eternity?
Does God long? In Job 14, Job is wrestling with his situation and his understanding of God. In vv 14-15 he says to God, "If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my service I would wait, till my renewal should come. You would call, and I would answer you; you would long for the work of your hands." Hmmm?
- I am warned by Job's friends. They really do seem to know a lot about God which is true to Scripture, but they presume they know the whole story and have lots of words for Job which are not helpful. They don't know the story. I need to remember that sometimes (most times?) it's best to just listen. I don't have to have an answer to someone's suffering.
Reading these chapters in Genesis this time I saw some things I had not noticed before (or probably forgot!)
ReplyDelete• Eve added to God's prohibition by saying 'don't touch, lest you die'...where did she get that? Also instead of waiting to ask God about the serpent's claim she went ahead and helped herself...what if she would have waited and asked (a good thing for me to practice!)
• how God came to our first parents (Gen 3:8), called to them (9), asks/dialogues with them (same chapter) and cared that they/we NOT live forever in this sinful state! (Doesn't humanity, the world over, still look for the fruit of the 'tree of life' - even though it's often called 'the fountain of youth'? If our first parents had eaten that, thinking they were getting a good thing we all would be lost forever! Whoa!)
• Again in Chapter 4 God comes to Cain BEFORE his murder of his brother and asks him questions,'why has your face fallen?' ...offers encouragement to do well. What if Cain had asked for help in this regard - talked it over with God and found that help he needed?
• Noah and his family, with all the animals, were closed up in the ark over a year - this gave me hope for waiting in the 'closed up places' I sometimes feel myself!
• Just thinking again about God's covenant sign of the rainbow - that HE sees it and remembers his everlasting covenant with us and every living creature...says He remembers twice - I'm so glad He is that kind of God!
bnj - I'm assuming this is Jennifer (am I right?). The observation about "generations" in Genesis is a good one. One way of structuring the book is to see the first chapter and a half as a preface to Genesis with the generations being indicators of different portions. For instance introducing Adam, Noah, sons of Noah, Terah, Jacob, etc. No doubt, the use of generations always causes us to reflect on teh historical reliability as well as the clear intention that the author believed the book to be historical.
ReplyDeleteI totally resonate with the question of longing - thanks for bringing it up. What do I long for? The praise of man? Comfort? Learning? Why do I find myself concerned over these things more than I do God? Perhaps through the course of this reading, this is an aspect we can ask God to help us with - "show us your beauty Lord, so that we would long for you more than anything else."
Your last sentence is freeing and wise. Not only don't you / we have to have the answer to all people's questions and problems, we can't always know all the time. For we are limited. I think what's interesting is that in the midst of struggle, difficulty, suffering, many people aren't looking for all inclusive answers but are many times looking for care, love, and sympathy. Why do we feel like we have to always give the "right" answer?
Thanks for your responses Penny...you're right - it's Jennifer; I changed my profile so it's more clear.
ReplyDeleteMore on longing (something I'll open up with in this week's sermon). In Engaging God's World, Plantinga has a nice discussion about the correlation between longing and shalom. He also references C.S. Lewis' Problem of Pain, chapter 10, which I just re-read: it's tremendous and really distills the concept of longing for heaven quite well. I heartily recommend it!
ReplyDeleteRyan
DeAnn - thanks for the idea about the year in the ark. That's good for those "how long, O Lord?" times.
ReplyDeleteRyan - looking forward to it. I need to get that book. I have to admit though, I don't like the idea of longing even longer as we wait "in a better place with Jesus" after death. Longing not to long....hmmm
I thought it was interesting to read Job's bitterness of soul in chapter 21 and guess the weight of suffering can be so strong it comes near to wiping clean one's memory of the truth. Job questions why the wicked live (7) and are not 'put out' more often (17)...I wondered why he didn't recall the great flood of Noah's time when all the wicked WERE washed out...yet he evidently sees the wicked proliferating in his own time and NOT suffering the kind of wrath HE's feeling - what sorrows he bore...makes me weep just thinking about his courage and the reality of these writings enduring what seem like eons of time.
ReplyDeleteEliphaz seems to remember the flood (22:16) but he takes such a dim view of man's worth it's hard to hear his voice.
Just read chapter 10 of Problem of Pain...excellent. How Lewis crafts words that resonate in the soul of the reader is, I think, one of the Self-Giving projects our Good Father has initiated. I am glad...and I am glad you found it first, Ryan, and directed us to read and ponder it.
ReplyDeleteI like especially "Heaven is a city, and a Body, because the blessed remain eternally different: a society, because each has something to tell all the others--fresh and ever fresh news of the "My God" whom each finds in Him who all praise as "Our God".
And "the soul is but a hollow which God fills. It's union with God is, almost by definition, a continual self-abandonment--an opening, an unveiling, a surrender, of itself. A blessed spirit is a mould ever more and more patient of the bright metal poured into it, a body ever more completely uncovered to the meridian blaze of the spiritual sun."
I would like to know what you think of his idea of "pains in heaven"..is it that God's initial self-ingiving in Christ will continue as each of us become more conformed to this same self-giving behavior, by the Holy Spirit...and that activity continues eternity? I think I can see that now better than before I read this...but will it be painful? Hmmm.
I guess Elihu sums up all our wonderings well in this week's readings when he says, "God is exalted in his power; who is a teacher like him...he is great and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable..he does great things we cannot comprehend and he does not regard any who are wise in their own conceit...may He help us to know Him better and remain humble!! a tall order but He can do it! Thanks for all your interactions this week, Jennifer, Penny, "Heather" Ryan...this is a joy for me to read the Word with you and think back and forth...I appreciate your time and thoughts.